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 400/600 ?????
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fatblokeonbandit
Settled In Member

United Kingdom
102 Posts

Posted - 19/04/2007 :  19:23:41  Show Profile
I'm in the middle of doing a triarm with a 600 engine, its all in and getting there just fitted the carbs and come across the air box problem, it dont fit, well it dose but you cant fit the tank!!

Can anyone tell me what they have used in the past?????????????????

Many thanks fatbloke

mikiboy
Administrator

United Kingdom
7326 Posts

Posted - 19/04/2007 :  21:52:13  Show Profile  Visit mikiboy's Homepage
You either re shape the tank or fix at the headstock and cable tiedown at the 2 sidepanel fixings on the tank. Thats what I did.
Have you goot a working rev counter?

keep on riding
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fatblokeonbandit
Settled In Member

United Kingdom
102 Posts

Posted - 21/04/2007 :  14:08:13  Show Profile
Thanks for that, thats what I was thinking, I havent done the electrics yet, is there a problem with the revcounter????

Cheers Garry
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mikiboy
Administrator

United Kingdom
7326 Posts

Posted - 21/04/2007 :  20:14:12  Show Profile  Visit mikiboy's Homepage
Yes. See hpw you get on. You may have to buy a sepperate item that runs electrcally

keep on riding
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fatblokeonbandit
Settled In Member

United Kingdom
102 Posts

Posted - 28/04/2007 :  14:40:41  Show Profile
Thanks for that will try it and see if it works, we made an airbox in the end out of a 400 and a 600 one glued together, works really well.
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400-SA
New Member

South Africa
48 Posts

Posted - 28/04/2007 :  17:57:35  Show Profile
If I may ask, what 600 year model are you useing and how difficult has it been?
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fatblokeonbandit
Settled In Member

United Kingdom
102 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2007 :  13:34:03  Show Profile
Its a 1987 cbr600 H but all the early jelly mould ones have the same engine dimensions. Its quite straight forward but you need some engineering skills. I cut the front engine mounting brackets off of the frame, bolted the new engine in using the rear mounts and some bricks to take the weight then bolted the front mounts to the engine, then you can see how much welding needs to be done. i made some filler plates out of ally then got it tacked in place by a mate, then took the engine back out stripped the frams bare and had it welded proporly at a local engineering works for £25. Its all the rest of the stuff that takes time, sorting the electrics, exhaust, air box and stuff like that. I got a complete engine carbs and wiring loom which has made it a bit easier. I have got as far as just about being ready to try and start the thing, but the battery is buggered, so will have to wait to get a new on, then crossed fingers and hope the engine is OK and not a bag of bolts.......
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a_morti
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1344 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2007 :  15:07:26  Show Profile
Why would you cut the front mounts off? They line up! Or at least, that's from CB-1 600 projects.

Did the head fit between the frame rails? How far off is the top engine mount?

BTW if anyone is thinking of doing this, it HAS TO BE the earliest CBR6 engine. The later model had a cmachain up the RHS of the engine instead of through the centre, and that makes it chaos to try and fit. Even more so on the CB-1 which has the front engine subframe at the front between the downpipes for 1+2 and 3+4.

WWW.HONDACB1.CO.NR
+ NC29 swingarm ('29 wheels soon), Quill T3 Ti, lots of black, blade rear hangers, beet rearsets, brembo brake. Top mods: BT45's, touring screen & rack with 50L box! Stolen recovered, scumbags best not try again.

Edited by - a_morti on 29/04/2007 15:12:38
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fatblokeonbandit
Settled In Member

United Kingdom
102 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2007 :  16:30:48  Show Profile
They might line up on a CB1 but the top of the 600 engine is much wider so the from mounting brackets have to be taken off to get the head and barrel between them,



The head dosent actualy sit between the frame rails just the carbs,and any of the engines from FH,FJ,FK,FL will fit the changes happened in the FM model.
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a_morti
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1344 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2007 :  16:44:18  Show Profile
Looks really nicely done, very professional. I have this crazy plan of streetfightering an nc23 with 600 engine, nc29 swingarm and wheels, and 600RR tail unit. I think it could look and be awesome.

Are you saying that, as it is, you couldn't get the engine back out without chopping the frame open? Is that mount point in the head really the original mount point for the 400 engine? seems a mad coincidence!

On the CB-1, the front mounts come down the front, so the overall width makes no difference. Biggest problem that turns up on a Cb-1 is the frame isn't strong enough. Mine had a crack in it a couple thousand ago, and that was just from the original 400 motor.



By earliest engine, I meant earliest engine, not earliest bike, sorry it wasn't clear. As you correctly say, this engine can be found in the FH-FL models.

WWW.HONDACB1.CO.NR
+ NC29 swingarm ('29 wheels soon), Quill T3 Ti, lots of black, blade rear hangers, beet rearsets, brembo brake. Top mods: BT45's, touring screen & rack with 50L box! Stolen recovered, scumbags best not try again.
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fatblokeonbandit
Settled In Member

United Kingdom
102 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2007 :  17:21:09  Show Profile
No the engine will come out Ok as there are some spacers to give clearance, all the holes lined up once the bracket was cut off and then the gap just had to be filled in.The bike is and ex racer that will be used for track days now which will be a hoot as in 400 form it could run rings round bigger stuff on short circuits but used to get thrashed on top end at long tracks like Silverstone. Hope fully the 600 motor will give it loads more go....
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a_morti
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1344 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2007 :  17:30:38  Show Profile
Ah, I see what you've done now.

Again, looks like a really well done bit of welding. Hope it all turns out well for you. It's an inspiration for the rest of us bodgers... er, I mean project builders

WWW.HONDACB1.CO.NR
+ NC29 swingarm ('29 wheels soon), Quill T3 Ti, lots of black, blade rear hangers, beet rearsets, brembo brake. Top mods: BT45's, touring screen & rack with 50L box! Stolen recovered, scumbags best not try again.
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fatblokeonbandit
Settled In Member

United Kingdom
102 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2007 :  19:12:16  Show Profile
I shall do some morer pics when its completed, if anyone needs to know anything else, or anyone has any good ideas/tips please let me know.
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a_morti
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1344 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2007 :  19:24:35  Show Profile
No tips, but I have a spare cbr6 right hand engine cover with alternator in it that I bought cheaply hoping the alternator would fit my bike (it didn't, it's much bigger) You can have for what I paid for it, if it's any use? Cover needs paint (I can do it but only in black) but hasn't even got any scratches.

Also interested to know if 400 downpipes fit? I know the gaskets are the same so the pipes must individually fit, but I would guess the ports would have to be further apart? Maybe a bit of heat and leaning would do it?

WWW.HONDACB1.CO.NR
+ NC29 swingarm ('29 wheels soon), Quill T3 Ti, lots of black, blade rear hangers, beet rearsets, brembo brake. Top mods: BT45's, touring screen & rack with 50L box! Stolen recovered, scumbags best not try again.
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fatblokeonbandit
Settled In Member

United Kingdom
102 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2007 :  20:54:27  Show Profile
Thanks for the offer but im allright for bits. The 400 down pipes spacing is narrower but the bike had a race exhaust on it so it all came apart and fitted OK.But I expect you could bend them if you wanted.We have a load of 400 triarm engine bits basically 2 engines with no crank cases but just about everything else, if you are anywhere near wiltshire you can have them as they are cluttering up the garage, or anyone else for that matter, for the price of a coouple of pints.. There is loads of stuff head clutches barrels crancks with knackerd big end, alternator ??
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firebeast
Familiar Member

275 Posts

Posted - 30/04/2007 :  22:08:16  Show Profile
airbox is very easy,you just make new plate to attach to airbox where it used to mount to carbs.you just use the rubbers from the 6.
ali would be best bet.
then it fits the tank and works as good as standard.
recommend getting race filter element,cut out old stuff and araldite in filter for better airflow.
leccys are straightforward if you have both loom diagrams to hand,plus see if the 4 cdi wil work on lump as it may give a nice advancement on igntition.
will only work if 6 lump runs 2 pick ups though,like the 4.
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a_morti
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1344 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2007 :  01:07:52  Show Profile
The Factory Ignition Advancer is the same part for the cb-1 (mostly an nc23 engine) and that jelly CBR6. I dont know if the cb-1 has retarded ignition as part of the detune from the nc23, but the part is marked cb-1 +6°, cbr600 +4°.

I fitted CB-1 pickups into the CBR6 engine case, as I crashed the CB-1 case. They fit and lined up fine, though I had to use different screws.

Not sure if that actually tells you anything at all, but still, there it is

WWW.HONDACB1.CO.NR
+ NC29 swingarm ('29 wheels soon), Quill T3 Ti, lots of black, blade rear hangers, beet rearsets, brembo brake. Top mods: BT45's, touring screen & rack with 50L box! Stolen recovered, scumbags best not try again.
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fatblokeonbandit
Settled In Member

United Kingdom
102 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2007 :  12:37:38  Show Profile
I was told not to use the 400 cdi as the rev limiter is 2000 highr which could cause destruction to the slow reving 600???I think we have everything sorted now by using 600 everything in the electrical departmet.

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waza4
Familiar Member

United Kingdom
368 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2007 :  16:47:47  Show Profile
I've run a 400 cdi for about 6 years no probs .

Whats wrong with the later F2 engine ?

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a_morti
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1344 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2007 :  23:52:49  Show Profile
you're not fooling me, that's an nc29 frame
maybe the later 600 engine revs higher by design?

WWW.HONDACB1.CO.NR
+ NC29 swingarm ('29 wheels soon), Quill T3 Ti, lots of black, blade rear hangers, beet rearsets, brembo brake. Top mods: BT45's, touring screen & rack with 50L box! Stolen recovered, scumbags best not try again.
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waza4
Familiar Member

United Kingdom
368 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  05:40:55  Show Profile
To be honest the cam's run out of puff at 13,500 so the
rev limiter is redundant after third gear.I expect F1 would be the same.
What do 400's rev to 14,500 I can't remember it's been so long ?
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